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Post by yukkabelle on Feb 5, 2009 13:22:08 GMT -5
Well there are a lot of questions/answers at time on the Ferret Health List ... As always many are lost me inclued.
One day it is so very clear and another day : lost in the dark.
This morning Dr Murray posted this and I think I must to share :
Re: Lupron dose
Posted by: "AFERRETVET@cs.com" AFERRETVET@cs.com
Wed Feb 4, 2009 6:39 pm (PST)
Hi Amanda, Karen, and Katherine
When people are talking about what dose of Lupron
to use for adrenal gland disease:
one thing to consider is the adrenal gland itself.
Typically the diseased adrenal gland(s) is classified as
either hyperplasia (pre cancer), adenoma (benign cancer),
or carcinoma (malignant cancer). One can expect cases of
hyperplasia and adenomas to respond much better to Lupron
than cases of carcinomas. Likewise if the adrenal cancer has spread
to the liver, spleen, or to other areas in the abdomen, then Lupron
may not control the clinical signs that well.
The normal dose of Lupron is 100 to 500 mcg per month. Roughly
80% respond well to the 100 mcg dose, roughly another 10%
will respond to the higher dose range (200 to 500 mcg), but ~10%
do not respond to Lupron. Those "nonresponders" are usually
carcinomas. That has been my experience with Lupron over the past
11 years down here in the South.
Hope that helps,
Jerry Murray, DVM
Dallas, Texas [/color]
Yukka
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Post by greta on Feb 6, 2009 12:55:37 GMT -5
Hi Yukka, What Dr. Murray is saying is that the best response to Lupron is when a ferret's adrenal tumors are pre cancerous (the cells show changes that signal they can become cancersou if not treated) or benign tumors (cancers that have not spread). From what I can tell only 10% of ferrets treated with Lupron don't show any improvement at all. That's 90% that do show improvement. I have been communicating by email with another member from Canada who knows of an additional treatment that shows more promise than Lupron. Let me contact her by email to see if it's alright for me to share her information with you and I'll be back. Loving hugs, Greta
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Post by huronna on Feb 6, 2009 15:14:31 GMT -5
Thanks for making that clearer for Yukka
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Post by yukkabelle on Feb 6, 2009 18:55:44 GMT -5
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Post by greta on Feb 6, 2009 23:00:17 GMT -5
Hi again, Marie-Agnes, I've been checking the email on my aol server, but there has been no response yet to my post to her. I'll get back to you with as much information as possible as soon as I hear from her. Loving hugs, Greta
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Post by yukkabelle on Feb 6, 2009 23:42:09 GMT -5
Thank you so much dear Greta. You are a true sweet soul. Sending Love to you and your precious Babies  Yukka |
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Post by greta on Feb 7, 2009 18:17:43 GMT -5
I have not heard a reply yet to my email, but after checking the facts I'm pretty sure you already know about these new implants. They are through a University and are called suprelorin. If I hear any more I will let you know. Hugs, Greta
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Post by Dar24 on Feb 8, 2009 19:37:35 GMT -5
I am anxiously waiting to see if you can post that info Greta.. I too live in Canada and have a fuzzie with Adrenal disease...Would love to know what they are trying that may work better then Lupron...
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Post by linkie2001 on Feb 9, 2009 21:58:49 GMT -5
Yukka & Dar ... they have the Suprelorin implants at the University here in Montreal. The vet told me that they were the only ones in Canada to have them.
It's mostly used in dogs but they can put implants in ferrets since January.
Maybe your vet could contact them to have more infos, I don't know if they could ship some.
The cost of the implant for Rose today : 157 $.
Linda XXX
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Post by greta on Feb 9, 2009 22:44:55 GMT -5
Linda Dear, Thank you so much for coming on board with the information these two ladies needed in order to help their ferrets. You're always there for us gf, and we deeply appreciate your loving consideration. God bless you! Loving hugs, Greta
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Post by yukkabelle on Feb 9, 2009 23:02:08 GMT -5
Thank you Linda and Thank you Greta
I will see how react Bear to his Lupron shot, and see if there is some improvment with the high dose of Lupron for Nahum.
I am almost certain there is a way to get this implant for my boys. It is so hudge (Linda on your previous post about Rose) I never thought it will be big like that. Do you think Rose will feels it, any pain with it ? that scares me a little.
Thanks again
Yukka
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Post by linkie2001 on Feb 10, 2009 3:31:42 GMT -5
Yukka, now I didn't know for Bear, just so sad to learn this  The vet told me that the Suprelorin implants are a lot better than Melatonin, that at the University, they have stopped to shoot the melatonin ones. They put the Suprelorin implants in ferrets since January only, about 10 ferrets got some until now. She said all ferrets had hairloss except the Rose, that's why she's confident for her, and her vulva is not enlarged also so ... She says that the Suprelorin is about the same thing as Lupron but it doesn't work the same way. So if the Lupron doesn't work ( the 500 mcg dosage) the implant could work. I haven't asked much questions about the Suprelorin, for me, it's a way to stretch time, I want to postpone surgery as much as I can because right now with my experiences with Cookie RIP & Daisy RIP, I'm just not able to put a ferret through surgery. Next time I talk to the vet I can ask questions for you if you want, just let me know. |
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Post by yukkabelle on Feb 10, 2009 11:51:28 GMT -5
Sure I want.
Nahum has all his fur back and tick as never, but the 2 glands continue to grow and in the fast way, and his prostate is enlarged. So I wonder if he get Suprelorin it will help to decrease the size of the glands. They are very very very big.
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Post by greta on Feb 10, 2009 12:30:29 GMT -5
Linda, Do you know if prednisone or prednisolone can reduce the size of adrenal tumors? I'm thinking of Marie-Agnes' Munchkins here. I know when Nada was having seizures because of a brain tumor, her vet prescribed pred to help reduce the tumor size and Nada got much better.
this is just a thought I had. Perhaps the vets at Montreal the University could answer this question. Hugs, Greta
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Post by linkie2001 on Feb 10, 2009 14:12:43 GMT -5
Yukka ... as the Suprelorin implants are pretty new in the ferrets world, no one really knows but lots of people have hope for Adrenal ferrets. In his study, according to the results, Dr Wagner says that the Suprelorin implants may not decrease adrenal tumor growth. IMO it's one opinion and it's one study on 15 ferrets. The more Suprelorin implants will be use in ferrets, the more they'll learn about it. Here's the infos on an Adrenal ferrets study by Dr Wagner ( from Peptech site : www.peptech.com/HTML/Animal_Health/Superlorin_Trial_Data.html ) Clinical and endocrine responses to treatment with deslorelin acetate implants in ferrets with adrenocortical disease.
Wagner RA, Piche CA, Jochle W and Oliver JW.
Am J Vet Res, 2005, 66(5) 910-914
OBJECTIVE: To evaluate the clinical and endocrine responses of ferrets with adrenocortical disease (ACD) to treatment with a slow-release implant of deslorelin acetate. ANIMALS: 15 ferrets with ACD. PROCEDURE: Ferrets were treated SC with a single slow-release, 3-mg implant of deslorelin acetate. Plasma estradiol, androstenedione, and 17-hydroxyprogesterone concentrations were measured before and after treatment and at relapse of clinical signs; at that time, the adrenal glands were grossly or ultrasonographically measured and affected glands that were surgically removed were examined histologically. RESULTS: Compared with findings before deslorelin treatment, vulvar swelling, pruritus, sexual behaviors, and aggression were significantly decreased or eliminated within 14 days of implantation; hair regrowth was evident 4 to 6 weeks after treatment. Within 1 month of treatment, plasma hormone concentrations significantly decreased and remained decreased until clinical relapse. Mean time to recurrence of clinical signs was 13.7 +/- 3.5 months (range, 8.5 to 20.5 months). In 5 ferrets, large palpable tumors developed within 2 months of clinical relapse; 3 of these ferrets were euthanatized because of adrenal gland tumor metastasis to the liver or tumor necrosis. CONCLUSIONS AND CLINICAL RELEVANCE: In ferrets with ACD, a slow-release deslorelin implant appears promising as a treatment to temporarily eliminate clinical signs and decrease plasma steroid hormone concentrations. Deslorelin may not decrease adrenal tumor growth in some treated ferrets. Deslorelin implants may be useful in the long-term management of hormone-induced sequelae in ferrets with ACD and in treatment of animals that are considered at surgical or anesthetic risk.Greta ... I have no idea why Pred is not used in Adrenal disease, I'll ask. I know for example that some ferrets with Adrenal & insulinoma get Pred but IMO the Pred sould be only effective on the insulinoma, that's my guess. IMO Pred won't have much effect on Adrenal disease. I mean, it won't prevent, stop the tumor, and/or control symptoms like hairloss, swelling vulva, muscular and weight loss etc. Something I know is that sometimes in terminal diseases, Pred can be use as a pain killer, maybe that's what they did for Nada RIP I hope this helps ! |
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Post by linkie2001 on Feb 12, 2009 1:45:18 GMT -5
Yukka, it's me again ... I haven't really read on the implants before because I didn't know that they had them at the University, now I'm on Peptech site and reading ... from : www.peptech.com/HTML/Animal_Health/Superlorin_general.htmlGeneral Information on the Suprelorin Implants :
A non-surgical method to suppress testosterone - first launched in Australia in December 2004 and New Zealand September 2005. It can be used for long or short term suppression of reproductive function of dogs and in situations where a reduced testosterone level is required, such as controlling antisocial behaviour and treating prostatic enlargement.My idea is that you should try it with Nahum if the Lupron doesn't work. There's some interesting info here too : www.acc-d.org/SuprelorinI hope this helps |
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Post by yukkabelle on Feb 12, 2009 1:55:57 GMT -5
I have read a lot about this new implant, even before that Nahum was adrenal, but never I read about treating the prostate !!! For now Nahum is on Flutamide for reduce the prostate. An ugly medecime, all messy, bitter taste ... and I don't know if that helps or not. When we will go for the next shot of Lupron, the vet will touch belly'S Nahum. I hope she will able to feel his prostate. Bear who is on the antibiotic since one week for his pee infection, is still making little pees every where and straining his belly on things ... Yukka |
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Post by linkie2001 on Feb 12, 2009 4:45:28 GMT -5
Yukka, when I'll talk to the vet, I'll try to get more infos for you,
your boys are in my thoughts and prayers ...
keep us updated on them both
Huge hugs & Kisses from me to Nahum & Petit Ours
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