Post by huronna on Oct 25, 2008 7:51:47 GMT -5
Courtesy of Norka
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Note from Lily: I would like to give a special thank you to Norka for allowing us to reprint her post from Ferret Universe and her e-mail to me regarding her ferret Maxx, and the experiences she and Maxx have had with a liver tumor. In researching for this page, I found the only real detailed information I could find came directly from Norka. I decided it would make more sense to post her words as written, rather than rewrite everything and run the risk of missing something important. Thank you Norka for this wonderful article you have written and shared with us all.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The following is a reprint, with permission, as written and Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2002 by Norka, on the Ferret Universe message board:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
With all All this talk about livers and ferrets from my dear friend Mike and some prior posts way back. I decided I really should share this with people who just might wish to learn something about dealing with stuff like this.
Maybe Maxx's story will make you realize how vital regular check ups are. Maybe it will prevent any one of us out there from ever seeing anything like this ever again. And maybe get the ball rolling on talking about liver problems in ferrets. WARNING: This picture attached on here (found in Medical Images album) is not for the faint of heart! This is an example of a nasty mass that was removed off of one of my ferrets.
We had Madd Maxx for exactly a year when this happened. His age is unknown, his past health history is unknown. He was found wandering outside in the cold Maine late fall, skinny and near death. The tech at my vet's up north took him in after talking to me and seeing my ferrets on a regular basis. She fell in love with ferrets! Sadly her dorm monitor found out she was harboring a pet. And that's when we got the phone call, and he's been with us ever since!
The tumor you can see (picture taken by Dr. Kemmerer) weighed a bit over a pound. The ferret weighed about a little over three pounds pre-surgery, and around just two pounds after. Now before you can say, "Gee ya didn't notice that!
" Guess what? Some things like this you can overlook! This is an oval shaped tumor that decided to grow on the liver. The ferret just looked fat! He ate very well, and played very hard, he was a normal ferret in all the senses. Seriously! Even the vet did not find anything wrong on usual prior bi-yearly exam! It wasn't until his belly got a bit taunt that I decided he should be checked out again just in case. They found a heart murmor, and wanted an x-ray to make sure he wasn't dealing with heart problems and that might have caused some fluid build up (i.e., his tauntness).
My Lesson #1 in ferrets and vets:
Ferrets cannot tell us what is wrong, so therefore our vets have to systematically guess and see what's up until they have something that sticks out like a sore thumb of out of kilter.
My Lesson #2:
Simply put, lesson #1 generally adds up cost wise very, very d**n fast.
So what did the x-ray show? A bit of fluid around the heart, (lasix was started up), and what appeared to be a very enlarged spleen. Immediate surgery was suggested, at least what was supposed to be exploratory and possibly the removal of the spleen.
My Lesson #3:
X-rays don't tell all, but they sure are worth it to help see what's going on inside and cheaper than a sonogram! Imagine without an x-ray to see, if they just thought he had some gas causing the belly bloat? This thing could've ruptured! But thankfully, even though my wallet disagrees, my vets are very thorough and that wasn't even thought of.
My Lesson #4 in ferrets:
When your vet tells you "My god this is the largest tumor I have ever removed from a ferret!", and being too that they are a well known ferret vet, it's a bit unsettling to say the least. This tumor resides in a jar at the vet's for teaching purposes. Oddly enough within the same week another ferret from another owner, came in that had a tumor that was almost as large as Maxx's. Theirs was attached to the adrenal gland but was noticed immediately. (Thankfully! Oh and that ferret is doing well I've heard!)
Now for measurement sake, those tweezers you see sitting in front of the tumor are exactly five inches long. My vet set them there for a comparison. Now this tumor could only be approximately 90% removed. Parts of it had its own blood supply that couldn't be messed with. This IS something that we will have to keep vigil over, for it is uncertain whether or not it will regrow again. Also part of the liver had to be removed along with the tumor. Livers thankfully regenerate!
My big time lesson #5:
There is good and bad in all recovery stuff with ferrets.
He recovered really great, ate well, played really good, seems like he felt wonderful. Then of course ya know, stuff happens.
Maxx healed up great. His heart murmer went away. This tumor was lengthwise in his belly, it was literally crushing him from the inside. Even today looking at the picture, the d**n thing is about as long as his body is I swear! Yet, he showed no signs of feeling sick, no slowing down, no change in eating! But! Aproximately two weeks later his liver decided to fail.
Poor guy had to start this all on New Year's Eve. So this wound up being an after hours bill on top of surgery as well. But vets have a heart too, no one complained, all the focus in those wee hours was on poor little Madd Maxx, who really felt horrid!
Recovery honestly after this was not something I counted the days on. But I will say, he was on medicines for about three weeks total. His kidneys started to fail in the midst of all this. He had as many as five different medications to take a day, we learned how to give sub-q fluids to help cut costs by doing care at home vs. having him there at the vet's. He was on stuff to flush the system out and getting him to eat was a fight. He wanted to give up, we didn't! We had to convince him that the giant "un-ferret-friendly" denosyl tablets were good to take, and furrosimide was a fun after pill chaser. He got jaundiced, and he had "mini" seizures. It was d**n heart breaking. And you know what? I was scared!
Towards the end of all this you would think there would be some rest for the little guy. But! Sadly no, encephalitis set in...which is a brain swelling, with his first mini seizure I immedietly let the vet know. He was going in on an every other day basis to keep an eye on his liver levels to see where they were heading. Turns out the high ammonia build up in the blood had effected the brain.
My lesson # 6:
When you mention the nervous system, even seasoned vets get nervous too. Nobody knows a lot about how the nervous system works, how it heals either, or how to predict if damage will happen. So when you hear that word mentioned, even the most cold heart will sink.
Brain damage was mentioned, possiblity of never recovering total motor control. He was walking like a drunkard, the hind end wanted to fall over or go in a compleatly different direction. They did more tests to make sure they could rule out low blood sugar. Nope, peachy keen, a very good level considering his unwilingness to eat. But, through some miracle out there, and some steroids to combat the brain swelling he slowly got better. Today you wouldn't know he had went through this entire ordeal save for the scar on the belly. Even that is fading over time and getting overgrown with some fuzz. He still has moments when he falters, but he has always been a bit of a klutz. We still adore him just as much as the day he was entrusted to us. Just don't ask me how much this cost us, that is totally irrelevant in my eyes.
The true lesson of all of this is that I learned:
Ferrets can suprise you. Either in good or bad ways. Whether it be the poop on the nice new rug, or the dance of joy to cheer you up when you are blue. I honestly swear they test us at times to see what we would go through to help them when they are ill. I would walk through fire for mine, and I wish mine would realize that already and stop giving me heart attacks! They are little angelic shooting stars, they burn so bright and dance through our lives. Sadly what burns so bright burns out so fast, I still would never stop having their sparkle in my life. Our reward in all this is the dance of joy and abandon after a ferret has recovered from the most devastating event we could ever fathom them to go through. And by far, that is more precious to me than all the gold in Fort Knoxx! Their unconditional love and zeal for life, their lack of predjudice for those either furry or human that may not physcially be up to the harsh human world's idea of par, we humans can learn so much from them. So kiss your ferrets for me, give extra raisins, and schedule that yearly physical if you haven't done so yet. This could happen to any of us in one form or another, and all of us are all here for each other to vent, to cry, to laugh and to share, we are all here.
For Mike and Lisa
My fingers are crossed, and my prayers go out for Dimmy. Please keep us all posted, we are all here for you both.
With Kindness,
Norka
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here are the medicines Maxx was put on:
Denosyl 90mg tablets- these are used primarily in dogs and cats to help
the liver function properly, it is a vet drug with no overdose problems.
90mg is the smallest dose too, big pills, they come in special foil sealed
packs, sensitive to air. (Something I am only recently aware of myself, this may be a new liver specific drug on the market for pets I think.)
Alpha-Interferon & Furosemide suspension, interferons if I recall right
benefit the liver. (Note from Lily: I have a human friend with Hep.C that takes Interferon)
Lactulose syrup, antibiotics for infection, and sulcralfate, where the
drugs are slightly irritating to his stomach.
I had to regularly give him sub Q fluids, sometimes 3 times a day but
mostly twice. The intent is to flush the "ammonias" out of the system.
One of the drugs I may have forgotten was a diuretic if I'm not mistaken, I think he was given some lasix I could be wrong, to help flush the system out. Forcing the poor little guy to pee quite a bit.
Towards the end of the week he was started up on prednisone to help with the brain swelling to reduce it. (...pred is sometimes not a bad thing in certain cases, and a chance I took even with the question of the liver).
Maxx was also on a supplement called Colite. It is a nasty, brown, terrible smelling vitamin I think...but it was to help him build up his system. I've had to give it before to one of my kiddos who slightly damaged his liver with some bug poison.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Note from Lily: I would like to give a special thank you to Norka for allowing us to reprint her post from Ferret Universe and her e-mail to me regarding her ferret Maxx, and the experiences she and Maxx have had with a liver tumor. In researching for this page, I found the only real detailed information I could find came directly from Norka. I decided it would make more sense to post her words as written, rather than rewrite everything and run the risk of missing something important. Thank you Norka for this wonderful article you have written and shared with us all.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The following is a reprint, with permission, as written and Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2002 by Norka, on the Ferret Universe message board:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
With all All this talk about livers and ferrets from my dear friend Mike and some prior posts way back. I decided I really should share this with people who just might wish to learn something about dealing with stuff like this.
Maybe Maxx's story will make you realize how vital regular check ups are. Maybe it will prevent any one of us out there from ever seeing anything like this ever again. And maybe get the ball rolling on talking about liver problems in ferrets. WARNING: This picture attached on here (found in Medical Images album) is not for the faint of heart! This is an example of a nasty mass that was removed off of one of my ferrets.
We had Madd Maxx for exactly a year when this happened. His age is unknown, his past health history is unknown. He was found wandering outside in the cold Maine late fall, skinny and near death. The tech at my vet's up north took him in after talking to me and seeing my ferrets on a regular basis. She fell in love with ferrets! Sadly her dorm monitor found out she was harboring a pet. And that's when we got the phone call, and he's been with us ever since!
The tumor you can see (picture taken by Dr. Kemmerer) weighed a bit over a pound. The ferret weighed about a little over three pounds pre-surgery, and around just two pounds after. Now before you can say, "Gee ya didn't notice that!
" Guess what? Some things like this you can overlook! This is an oval shaped tumor that decided to grow on the liver. The ferret just looked fat! He ate very well, and played very hard, he was a normal ferret in all the senses. Seriously! Even the vet did not find anything wrong on usual prior bi-yearly exam! It wasn't until his belly got a bit taunt that I decided he should be checked out again just in case. They found a heart murmor, and wanted an x-ray to make sure he wasn't dealing with heart problems and that might have caused some fluid build up (i.e., his tauntness).My Lesson #1 in ferrets and vets:
Ferrets cannot tell us what is wrong, so therefore our vets have to systematically guess and see what's up until they have something that sticks out like a sore thumb of out of kilter.
My Lesson #2:
Simply put, lesson #1 generally adds up cost wise very, very d**n fast.
So what did the x-ray show? A bit of fluid around the heart, (lasix was started up), and what appeared to be a very enlarged spleen. Immediate surgery was suggested, at least what was supposed to be exploratory and possibly the removal of the spleen.
My Lesson #3:
X-rays don't tell all, but they sure are worth it to help see what's going on inside and cheaper than a sonogram! Imagine without an x-ray to see, if they just thought he had some gas causing the belly bloat? This thing could've ruptured! But thankfully, even though my wallet disagrees, my vets are very thorough and that wasn't even thought of.
My Lesson #4 in ferrets:
When your vet tells you "My god this is the largest tumor I have ever removed from a ferret!", and being too that they are a well known ferret vet, it's a bit unsettling to say the least. This tumor resides in a jar at the vet's for teaching purposes. Oddly enough within the same week another ferret from another owner, came in that had a tumor that was almost as large as Maxx's. Theirs was attached to the adrenal gland but was noticed immediately. (Thankfully! Oh and that ferret is doing well I've heard!)
Now for measurement sake, those tweezers you see sitting in front of the tumor are exactly five inches long. My vet set them there for a comparison. Now this tumor could only be approximately 90% removed. Parts of it had its own blood supply that couldn't be messed with. This IS something that we will have to keep vigil over, for it is uncertain whether or not it will regrow again. Also part of the liver had to be removed along with the tumor. Livers thankfully regenerate!
My big time lesson #5:
There is good and bad in all recovery stuff with ferrets.
He recovered really great, ate well, played really good, seems like he felt wonderful. Then of course ya know, stuff happens.
Maxx healed up great. His heart murmer went away. This tumor was lengthwise in his belly, it was literally crushing him from the inside. Even today looking at the picture, the d**n thing is about as long as his body is I swear! Yet, he showed no signs of feeling sick, no slowing down, no change in eating! But! Aproximately two weeks later his liver decided to fail.
Poor guy had to start this all on New Year's Eve. So this wound up being an after hours bill on top of surgery as well. But vets have a heart too, no one complained, all the focus in those wee hours was on poor little Madd Maxx, who really felt horrid!
Recovery honestly after this was not something I counted the days on. But I will say, he was on medicines for about three weeks total. His kidneys started to fail in the midst of all this. He had as many as five different medications to take a day, we learned how to give sub-q fluids to help cut costs by doing care at home vs. having him there at the vet's. He was on stuff to flush the system out and getting him to eat was a fight. He wanted to give up, we didn't! We had to convince him that the giant "un-ferret-friendly" denosyl tablets were good to take, and furrosimide was a fun after pill chaser. He got jaundiced, and he had "mini" seizures. It was d**n heart breaking. And you know what? I was scared!
Towards the end of all this you would think there would be some rest for the little guy. But! Sadly no, encephalitis set in...which is a brain swelling, with his first mini seizure I immedietly let the vet know. He was going in on an every other day basis to keep an eye on his liver levels to see where they were heading. Turns out the high ammonia build up in the blood had effected the brain.
My lesson # 6:
When you mention the nervous system, even seasoned vets get nervous too. Nobody knows a lot about how the nervous system works, how it heals either, or how to predict if damage will happen. So when you hear that word mentioned, even the most cold heart will sink.
Brain damage was mentioned, possiblity of never recovering total motor control. He was walking like a drunkard, the hind end wanted to fall over or go in a compleatly different direction. They did more tests to make sure they could rule out low blood sugar. Nope, peachy keen, a very good level considering his unwilingness to eat. But, through some miracle out there, and some steroids to combat the brain swelling he slowly got better. Today you wouldn't know he had went through this entire ordeal save for the scar on the belly. Even that is fading over time and getting overgrown with some fuzz. He still has moments when he falters, but he has always been a bit of a klutz. We still adore him just as much as the day he was entrusted to us. Just don't ask me how much this cost us, that is totally irrelevant in my eyes.
The true lesson of all of this is that I learned:
Ferrets can suprise you. Either in good or bad ways. Whether it be the poop on the nice new rug, or the dance of joy to cheer you up when you are blue. I honestly swear they test us at times to see what we would go through to help them when they are ill. I would walk through fire for mine, and I wish mine would realize that already and stop giving me heart attacks! They are little angelic shooting stars, they burn so bright and dance through our lives. Sadly what burns so bright burns out so fast, I still would never stop having their sparkle in my life. Our reward in all this is the dance of joy and abandon after a ferret has recovered from the most devastating event we could ever fathom them to go through. And by far, that is more precious to me than all the gold in Fort Knoxx! Their unconditional love and zeal for life, their lack of predjudice for those either furry or human that may not physcially be up to the harsh human world's idea of par, we humans can learn so much from them. So kiss your ferrets for me, give extra raisins, and schedule that yearly physical if you haven't done so yet. This could happen to any of us in one form or another, and all of us are all here for each other to vent, to cry, to laugh and to share, we are all here.
For Mike and Lisa
My fingers are crossed, and my prayers go out for Dimmy. Please keep us all posted, we are all here for you both.
With Kindness,
Norka
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here are the medicines Maxx was put on:
Denosyl 90mg tablets- these are used primarily in dogs and cats to help
the liver function properly, it is a vet drug with no overdose problems.
90mg is the smallest dose too, big pills, they come in special foil sealed
packs, sensitive to air. (Something I am only recently aware of myself, this may be a new liver specific drug on the market for pets I think.)
Alpha-Interferon & Furosemide suspension, interferons if I recall right
benefit the liver. (Note from Lily: I have a human friend with Hep.C that takes Interferon)
Lactulose syrup, antibiotics for infection, and sulcralfate, where the
drugs are slightly irritating to his stomach.
I had to regularly give him sub Q fluids, sometimes 3 times a day but
mostly twice. The intent is to flush the "ammonias" out of the system.
One of the drugs I may have forgotten was a diuretic if I'm not mistaken, I think he was given some lasix I could be wrong, to help flush the system out. Forcing the poor little guy to pee quite a bit.
Towards the end of the week he was started up on prednisone to help with the brain swelling to reduce it. (...pred is sometimes not a bad thing in certain cases, and a chance I took even with the question of the liver).
Maxx was also on a supplement called Colite. It is a nasty, brown, terrible smelling vitamin I think...but it was to help him build up his system. I've had to give it before to one of my kiddos who slightly damaged his liver with some bug poison.
